2012-05-08 外交部边海司司长邓中华接受凤凰卫视访谈
Interview of Director-General of the MFA Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs Deng Zhonghua by
Phoenix Satellite TV
2012年5月8日，外交部边海司司长邓中华做客凤凰卫视《新闻今日谈》栏目，就黄岩岛问题接受主持人阮次山先生采访，介绍了此次黄岩岛事件的背景及中方在黄岩岛问题上的立场和政策主张，强调菲律宾应回到外交途径解决黄岩岛事件的正确轨道上来。访谈实录如下：
On May 8, 2012, Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Deng Zhonghua received the interview on the issue of Huangyan Island by Moderator Anthony Yuen of Phoenix Satellite TV's News Talk. Deng introduced the background of the Huangyan Island issue and China's position and policy proposition. He stressed that the Philippines should return to the right track of seeking diplomatic solution to the Huangyan Island issue. The following is the text of the interview.
阮次山：我们和菲律宾在黄岩岛上面的对峙已经将近一个月，最近这个事态在菲律宾方面，似乎好像是没有要解决这个问题的意思，好像事情愈演愈烈，一直到昨天我们外交部副部长傅莹曾经召见他们菲律宾驻华的临时代办。这一点我们也要说一下，菲律宾没有大使已经快一年了，他新总统阿基诺任命的大使在菲律宾国会没有获得同意，所以一直到现在他在中国没有大使，只有临时代办，所以傅莹在昨天接见又第三度召见他的临时代办，表示我们对这个事情严重关切，那么也表达了，如果这个事情再继续恶化下去，中国方面准备采取必要的措施。
Yuen: Our standoff with the Philippines on the Huangyan Island issue has lasted nearly a month. According to the latest developments, it seems that the Philippines has no intention to solve the issue and things are getting intensified. Yesterday Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying summoned the charge d'affaires of the Philippine embassy in China. Here we would like to note that it has been almost one year that there is no Philippine ambassador to China. The ambassador appointed by its new President Aquino was not approved by the Congress. That's why until now they have had no ambassador but only a charge d'affaires to China. Yesterday, Fu Ying for the third time summoned their charge d'affaires to express our serious concern about the issue. We have also made it clear that China is ready to take the necessary measures if the matter continues to worsen.
在这种情况之下熟悉外交事务的人都晓得，我们中国方面是想尽办法希望菲律宾，我们说一句比较通俗的话，希望你悬崖勒马，可是如果他不悬崖勒马我们有我们自己的办法。所以我们今天非常高兴能够邀请到我们中国外交部边海司司长邓中华司长，来给我们从法理的观点，从过去一个月快29天这个过去的种种过程来给我们做一个比较详细的分析。邓司长，我们先从开始现在菲律宾在这个事情上面它一再的讲说这个是它的领海，其实它一开始就有这种措施。那么您可不可以从法理的观点来看这个地方：菲律宾说是他的领土，全世界的人也都知道菲律宾这个讲法是非常的牵强的，您可不可以从法律、法理的立场来看，这个地方菲律宾犯的是什么样的错误呢?
Under such circumstances, people familiar with diplomacy know that China is trying its best and, to put in a more popular way, China hopes that the Philippines wakes up to the danger at last moment. If they don't, we will take necessary measures. Therefore, today we are very glad to have Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Deng Zhonghua here to give us a detailed analysis of the developments over the past 29 days or almost one month from a legal point of view. Mr. Deng, the Philippines repeatedly claims that Huangyan Island belongs to its territorial waters and in fact it has been taking actions accordingly very early on. The Philippines claims that Huangyan Island is its territory, but the whole world knows this argument is very far-fetched. Could you tell us what is wrong with the Philippines from the standpoint of law and jurisprudence?
邓中华：谢谢阮先生，黄岩岛是中国的领土，这是没有任何争议的，是非常明确的。如果说到这个问题，我想说大量的历史事实充分证明了黄岩岛是中国的领土。中国人在几百年前，上千年前就已经在黄岩岛海域从事过活动，在中国的历史记载上都有，这个过程我不用细说，但我想说的是，中国政府历次对在南海的岛屿的命名都包括了黄岩岛，比如说1935年中国政府宣布对南海岛屿的命名，1947年、1983年等等几次都宣布了我们对黄岩岛的命名，这本身就以政府的法律的行为证明黄岩岛是中国的领土，而且中国历代政府的地图上都包括了黄岩岛，这是一方面。
Deng: Thank you, Mr. Yuen. It is undisputable and crystal clear that Huangyan Island is China's territory. Talking about this, I would like to say that a lot of historical facts fully prove Huangyan Island is Chinese territory. Several hundred of years ago or even one thousand years ago, the Chinese have engaged in activities in the Huangyan Island waters. It is recorded in the Chinese history and I do not need to elaborate on this. But I want to say that all the previous naming of the islands in the South China Sea by the Chinese government includes Huangyan Island. For example, the Chinese government announced the naming of the South China Sea islands in 1935 and the naming of Huangyan Island in 1947 and 1983. In the form of legal act of the government, the naming itself proves that Huangyan Island is Chinese territory. The maps published by the Chinese government in all ages contain Huangyan Island. This is the first point.
另一方面，黄岩岛世世代代都是中国渔民的传统的渔场。比如说最近的报道，就报道了我们海南的(覃门镇)的渔民一直把黄岩岛海域称作他们的祖宗海，他们一直在那儿捕鱼，世世代代在那儿捕鱼，不仅如此，我们各个方面的人员也经常到黄岩岛海域进行活动，包括在那儿进行科研活动，进行无线电安置活动，这方面活动是非常非常多的，所以我说黄岩岛是中国的领土，这是没有任何争议的事实。
On the other hand, Huangyan Island for generations has been a traditional fishing ground of the Chinese fishermen. For example, according to a recent report, fishermen in Hainan (Qinmen Town) always call the Huangyan Island waters their ancestor waters. They have been fishing there for generations. What's more, Chinese people from all sectors also go to Huangyan Island often to conduct scientific researches and install radios, etc. There are lots of these activities. That's why I say it is an undisputable fact that Huangyan Island is China's territory.
另外，我们再来看看菲律宾。菲律宾在很长一段时间都公开说黄岩岛不是菲律宾的领土。1990年菲律宾驻德国大使在给德国无线电爱好者的信函里面明确的说，黄岩岛不是菲律宾的领土。我想阮先生知道一个国家派驻另外一个国家的大使，他是代表这个国家的特命全权大使，他的讲话特别是他的书面文件代表了一个国家的正式立场。不仅如此，1994年菲律宾环境与自然资源保护部的一份正式文件里面也明确地说黄岩岛不是菲的领土。那么菲律宾从什么时候才开始提出黄岩岛是他的领土呢，是在1997年以后，但是即使在那以后菲律宾出版的所有官方地图上面都没有把黄岩岛列入它的领土，包括2006年地图里面都没有把黄岩岛包括在菲律宾的领土里。
In addition, let's look at the Philippines. The Philippines for a very long period of time has publically stated that Huangyan Island is not its territory. In 1990, the Philippine Ambassador to Germany said clearly in a letter to the German radio amateurs that Huangyan Island is not the territory of the Philippines. I believe Mr. Yuen must know that the comment, especially the written document of the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of one country to another represents the official stance of his or her country. Furthermore, in 1994, an official document of the Philippine Department of Environment and Natural Resources also clearly stated that Huangyan Island is not the Philippine territory. Then, when did the Philippines begin claiming that Huangyan Island is its territory? It is after 1997. But even after 1997 all the official maps published by the Philippines do not include Huangyan Island in its territory, even the 2006 map.
阮次山：您讲到2006年这张地图，我们有一张这个地图。我们请导播帮我们切一下，这个是它地图整体的一部分，我们的摄像师慢慢的把镜头拉近，好的，就在这里，大家可以看到，图中左边的是黄岩岛的这个地图，中间有十字的那条线，是他们的所谓的国界线，是东经的128度。
Yuen: Here we have a 2006 map you mentioned. This is the whole map. I would like to ask our cameraman to slowly zoom in. Right here we can see Huangyan Island on the left side. The cross line in the middle is the Philippines' so-called border line. It is 128 degrees east longitude.
邓中华：118度。
Deng: 118 degrees.
阮次山：118度，您从这条线可以看出来，它的右边是菲律宾的国土，左边是我们的黄岩岛，换句话说在菲律宾它自己所出版的这张地图上……
Yuen: 118 degrees. Along this line, the right side is the territory of the Philippines and the left side is our Huangyan Island. In other words, this map published by the Philippines itself…
邓中华：它的官方地图上……
Deng: Its official map…
阮次山：都说明了黄岩岛不是菲律宾的属地，不是它的领海。
Yuen: shows that Huangyan Island is neither the possession nor in the territorial waters of the Philippines.
邓中华：不是它的领土。
Deng: It is not the territory of the Philippines.
阮次山：目前到现在为止这个菲律宾，我们可以说是无理取闹，你这个地方不但不是你的，你自己的官方地图也这么讲，好了，它现在菲律宾的阿基诺说，他不但说这是它的，他还把它另外重新命名是吧?
Yuen: We can say that until now the Philippines has been making trouble out of nothing. This place is not yours and your official map indicates that. Well, now Aquino not only says this place belongs to the Philippines but also gives it a new name, right?
邓中华：所以这个事情我也接着说，2006年的地图都没有把黄岩岛包括在它的领土范围之内，这就说明在很长的一段时间它都公开的正式的宣布黄岩岛不是它的领土。他采取法律行为说黄岩岛是他的领土是在2009年当菲律宾修订它的领海基线法时，才开始把黄岩岛列入属于它的领土。这一次当菲律宾在黄岩岛挑起事端以后，在这个过程当中，菲律宾对黄岩岛一直使用各种不同的称谓，包括使用我们讲的黄岩岛这个称谓。现在他急急忙忙为黄岩岛正式确立了名称，我觉得这本身就是一个很可笑的行为，而且这个行为本身就进一步证明黄岩岛是中国的领土，而不是菲律宾的领土。
Deng: So I want to say that even the 2006 map does not include Huangyan Island in its territory. It proves that for a very long period of time the Philippines publicly and formally announced Huangyan Island is not its territory. It started taking legal actions to claim that Huangyan Island is its territory in 2009 when it amended its law of territorial sea baseline. Now, as the Philippines stirs up trouble on Huangyan Island, it has been calling the Island different names, even sometimes using the name of Huangyan Island itself. It has officially come up with a name for Huangyan Island in a rush. I think that the act itself is ridiculous and exactly proves that Huangyan Island is China's territory rather than the territory of the Philippines.
阮次山：我们有一点国际法常识的人都知道，你宣称哪个地方是你的领土要获得国际的认可是吧，所以现在就您所知道在国际把这个黄岩岛称为Scarborough Shoal的这个礁岩，国际上有任何国家对它有认可吗?
Yuen: People who know anything about the international law will know that your claim of territory should have international recognition. As far as you know, is there any country in the world recognizing the Scarborough Shoal reef which is in fact the Huangyan Island?
邓中华：现在没有看到任何国家，对它说黄岩岛是它的领土有任何的认可，没有，我没有听到任何一个国家提出这么一个说法。
Deng: So far I've not seen any country recognizing that Huangyan Island is the territory of the Philippines. I've not heard any country making such a statement.
阮次山：我们在报上也看到，它的外交部长等人，说我们中国是个大国在欺负它，这个地方它说是它的领土，我们过去的各种情形说明我们欺负它，您一开始就在处理这个危机，我们中国有欺负它吗?
Yuen: We have read in the newspaper that some people, including its minister of foreign affairs said that China, as a big country, bullies the Philippines. They claim that Huangyan Island is their territory. Our acts in the past showed that we bullied them. You have been involved in handling this crisis from the very beginning. Has China bullied the Philippines?
邓中华：听了这个消息我感到非常不解，也非常困惑，为什么说中国欺负它?我想举几个事实，这个事件发生在4月10日，菲律宾动用它的军舰进入黄岩岛海域堵住黄岩岛的泻湖口，派荷枪实弹的士兵强行登临在泻湖内正常作业的中国渔船，同时强迫中国渔民脱掉上衣在海上暴晒两个多小时。那么，这个行为是中国欺负菲律宾的行为吗?这是一。
Deng: After hearing this news, I am very puzzled and very confused. Why does the Philippines claim that China bullies it? I want to list several facts. The incident took place on April 10. The Philippines' warship blocked the lagoon within the Huangyan Island. Their armed soldiers boarded the Chinese fishing boat which was conducting normal operations within the lagoon and forced the Chinese fishermen to take off their shirts under the sun for more than 2 hours. So, is this the case of China bullying the Philippines?
中国渔民把这个情况报告给我们有关部门以后，我们迅速派出了政府公务船，具体来讲就是中国的海监船和渔政船奔赴现场，我们的海监船和渔政船到达现场是为了保护我们渔民的生命和财产的安全。我们海监船和渔政船采取最大的克制，没有使事态进一步恶化，而且我们的海监船和渔政船都是民事船只，面对的是一艘三千多吨重的军舰，而且这艘军舰是菲律宾现在最大的一艘军舰，那么这种行为是中国欺负菲律宾吗?
After the Chinese fishermen reported to our relevant departments, we immediately sent government ships, specifically the Chinese marine surveillance and fishery administration ships to the site. Our ships went there to protect the life and property safety of our fishermen. They exercised the maximum restraint and avoided further deterioration of the situation. Moreover, our marine surveillance and fishery administration ships are civil vessels. What they were faced with was a 3000-ton warship which at present is the biggest warship of the Philippines. Is this the case of China bullying the Philippines?
第三，事件发生以来，菲律宾这段时间一直是以非常强硬的态度对待这件事情，菲律宾的政府高官，包括军方的高级官员在这个问题上一直发表非常强硬的、不负责任的、甚至错误的言论，误导菲律宾的民众，那么这是一种中国欺负菲律宾的这种行为吗?同时这段时间以来，菲律宾的政府一直鼓励菲律宾的媒体热炒菲律宾对华不友好的情绪，那么可能阮次山先生你也知道，最近一段时间以来菲律宾发生过几起针对中国驻菲大使馆的游行示威活动，而且据了解，菲律宾还将在全球范围内发动更大规模的针对中国驻外使领馆的游行示威活动，他们甚至公开说，要让中国在这个问题上颜面扫地，那么这种行为是中国欺负菲律宾吗?我说这个事实是想让中菲两国人民和国际社会都了解事情的真相，不要被那些错误的甚至误导性的言论所迷惑。
Third, the Philippines has been taking a very tough attitude towards this incident since it took place. Its senior government officials, including senior military officials, have been making very aggressive, irresponsible and even wrong statements on this issue to mislead the Philippine people. Is this a case of China bullying the Philippines? Meanwhile, during this period of time, the Philippine government has been encouraging the Philippine media to hype up the unfriendly mood towards China. Mr. Yuen, you might know that recently there have occurred several demonstrations against the Chinese Embassy in the Philippines. It is understood that the Philippines will launch even larger scale of demonstrations against Chinese embassies and consulates around the world. They even said publicly that they will make China lose face on this matter. Is this the case of China bullying the Philippines? I tell you the fact because I hope the Chinese and the Philippine people and the international community know the truth and are not misguided by the wrong and misleading statements.
阮次山：邓司长，在过去近一个月里面，从菲总统阿基诺到外长，有很多言论，从我们新闻从业员角度来看，简直不堪入目。比如讲，他外长上一阵子在美国说，在黄岩岛问题上面，我们要让中国“付出严重代价”。诸如此类的，刚才您也讲过了，菲律宾有很多的作为。我们难免要想，从您的判断，菲律宾政府这样做有什么道理，他的目的何在?
Yuen: Mr. Deng, in the past month, from the Philippine President Aquino to the Philippine foreign minister, they have made a lot of remarks. From the perspective of a media practioner, some remarks are simply intolerable. For instance, the Philippine foreign minister lately said in the US that they will make China "pay a heavy price" on the Huangyan Island issue. As you said just now, the Philippines has done many such things lately. We have to ask that what do you think is the reason and the intention of the Philippine government?
邓中华：黄岩岛事件发生后，我们立即向菲律宾方面提出了严正的交涉和强烈的抗议，要求菲律宾方面立即停止在中国的黄岩岛海域侵犯中国主权、侵犯中国渔民和渔船的人身和财产安全的行为，同时要求他们的船只立即离开这个海域。在交涉中，菲律宾多次表示要通过外交渠道解决问题，菲律宾方面也公开表示过，希望通过外交渠道来解决问题。但是实际情况怎么样呢?我们从这20多天的实际情况来看，我们觉得，他们并没有像他们所说的那样希望通过外交渠道来解决，而是向一个相反的方向在往前发展，我刚才已经讲了，从菲律宾过去这段时间以来所做的事情可以看出。正像阮先生您刚才所说的，菲律宾方面还有一些非常强硬的言行，他还鼓励他的民众包括海外的侨民到我们的使领馆门口去抗议示威，说要让中国人“颜面扫地”。另外菲律宾方面还宣称要中止与中国就黄岩岛问题进行的外交对话。事实上从4月25日以后，我们驻菲使馆与菲律宾外交部已经没有外交交往。
